Good question:

I don't believe you can change someones perception against their will. They are going to project what they want, onto whoever they want. "Those convinced against their will is of the same opinion still."

We can persuade their perception by just being a kick ass example. Build trust. I'm not going to put my energy into trying to convince them otherwise. I'd rather put that energy into being an awesome example.

We just have to put our focus on doing what ethical marketers do.

"Be the change you desire in the world" as we've heard before. Outshine, out perform and outlast the scammy people. They never last long anyway.

I wonder why people don't want to/are too embarrassed to use those words. Perhaps because of the way marketing and selling has been done? Just a thought.

Until we are able to change peoples' concept of what a "marketer" or "salesperson" is (and unfortunately, the concept for most tends to lean towards the less ethical practices) then changing the words we use to call it won't do any good.

Sanitation engineers still haul garbage to the dump, same as the garbage man did.

I guess the question is, how do we change the perception? How do we get people to see past the ones who give sales a bad name?

Awesome post.

Seriously people are eat up with their own personal prejudices. Everyone is selling all the time. People who sell me on "why they aren't a salesperson" are doing just that. selling me on why they aren't.

Selling is nothing more than a belief. Period. If you believe your product or service rocks a need in the market, LEARN how to effectively and purposely communicate it's benefits to the end user.

Why does that seem so damn evil?

It's almost like people who miss the boat on "Money is the root of all evil." No, it's "For the LOVE of money is the root of all evil."

It's the people who's "intent" it is to use marketing to push crap products that have no value and are just trying to "get money" that give marketing a bad name.

Marketing is simply a tool and it's the intent behind the person/company or organization that determines if it's evil or not.

Open your eyes to a bigger perspective!

It's time marketers dropped being ashamed of their chosen work. But first, they have to stop shaming each other with comparisons of who is or is not a professional. The public perception of marketing as a positive business activity has declined due to hype and other fraud. Compounded by the vastness of the internet and the scary potential to fall into a "trap" that steals your first born hasn't helped much either. This is bound to change as the public becomes more tech savvy and knowledgeable.

Grant,
I've spent most of my life in selling and marketing. One thing I've noticed is the people that are afraid to mention those words have something inside going on about selling. They either don't feel they deserve the money, feel good about the product they're selling, or they feel like they're doing something bad and should be something reputable like a doctor or lawyer (they sell too, it's just disguised as consulting). In other words, they're either doing something wrong and unethical or they think they are.

Funny how some things get under our skin. It took me many years to get comfortable with calling myself a salesperson. Now I say it with pride. I create jobs. I create business. I create better lives for my customers. I am more important than the back office or the product. Without sales & marketing it doesn't matter what you create, the world will never see it.

Joella - could not agree more. Thanks for jumping in on this one.

Nothing wrong with marketing, but some "marketers" give the whole process a bad name, when they try to disguise what they are doing as something else and rope people into sites and squeeze pages advertising things they weren't looking for in the first place.

I have no problem with marketing, I even like to buy things from marketers! But I prefer it when it's my idea to check out a product. I don't like being shanghaied when I'm searching for information on a topic that has nothing to do with me buying something.

Please market away, but be forthright and honest when you do it. Don't get all up in my face and try to sell me something I didn't want to even know about.

I think that may be part of why marketing is getting a bad rep. I don't like pushy salesmen, never have and never will. And I, believe it or not, did my fair share of telemarketing. I didn't like me either. LOL

Bravo, Grant.

There's not a human being on this planet who isn't trying to sell some thing or some idea to somebody. In fact, not one of these complainiks would even have a job if somebody didn't sell something first. Do they think their paycheck just appeared out of nowhere?

John Carlton ( very well-known marketer, btw) said something very profound about selling. He said that if you're selling crap, you shouldn't be. BUT, if you have something that people need, that will make their lives better, that will make the world a better place, then shame on you for not getting it into the hands of everybody who needs it. We need to shout it from the rooftops.

If you look at it that way... selling is very Kumbaya...

Marc

I think that this is an attempt to put some distance between the kind of marketing that you and I do (or at least try to do) and the abusive selling techniques and black hat kind of stuff.

But you are absolutely right. We need not be ashamed of marketing ourselves and our products -- unless we're using above mentioned abusive techniques.

Hear! Hear! About time someone said something about all this anti-marketing nonsense. It's time for the truth. Marketing, self-promotion, selling all recently have become the forbidden fruit. You see it especially on many social media networking sites that were started specifically as platforms for marketing.

Yet, if you dare to actually do a bit of honest marketing on them you're likely to get booted out. Marketers today are perceived in the same way as spammers and scammers. This is all wrong. Selling is about sharing services, knowledge and resources. Why is that wrong? Everyone needs to grow their business and everyone should be proud of their marketing efforts.

For free internet marketing classes (no registration required), you are welcome to join me at: Blog A Business Card (http://blogabusinesscard.blogspot.com/)

I always love a good Grant rant! You're right that the terms we use are important. Suggesting changing the terms "marketing" or "selling" puts the focus on the purpose, not the process. The process may need to change; the purpose (and the terms that describe it) should be left alone.

Wow, that certainly needed to be said.

Brilliant idea - reckon you'd get quite a few decent posts out of it :)

Woohoo! Good for you Grant! Only let the selling and marketing be entertaining, original and (god forbid) clever.We could all do without the really cheesy stuff.

We are both close.. all that matters lol

Exactly. And I think it might be Kumbyya. Not sure on that one.

Christian - Don't worry about it being long. You can do a long comment anytime. Glad my post caused the conversation to take place.

Thanks Barney - I actually had fun writing that post. It has even caused me to think there might be a series in this topic. Perhaps a series called, "Stupid Ass Statements Made By Those Who Are Ashamed To Be Marketers"

Frank, you can rant away here on Blog For Profit anytime you want.

Great Post..lol

People need to let go of the mindset that we are all here for a "cum-by-ya" (think it's spelled that way..lol) luv fest.

Same people that complain about marketing are the same ones that watch commercials and infomercials all nite long.

Same people that see a commercial and run to the store to buy the product they saw.

Yet online, people are sooo against marketing?

Yes their are some dirt bag marketing "techniques" out there, but over all marketing is everywhere, and people need to get over it.

wow Grant, sorry for my long-ass comment. I guess you got me on a rant of my own ;)

Fear is part of sales. It's called "call reluctance", and we all experience it...both the marketer and the marketee. Is "marketee" a word? In any case, we come up with all sorts of ineffective ways to squash the fear of selling. We rename it, say bad things about it or just avoid it altogether. I've even had sales training clients become physically sick. Their minds are so bent against selling that they physically cannot do it. It's pretty amazing actually.

Entrepreneurs so often pride themselves in saying they're bad at sales. What a horrible attitude! And of course buyers are very trigger happy to call foul at even the slightest onset of a sales situation.

Ironically, all the ill will comes from a fundamental, systemic misunderstanding of what selling really is. Sales is only a problem when it's done poorly. Which of course, is too often :-) When it's done well, the sales process is invisible.

But here's the thing...part of the sales process is communicating to buyers who are targeted and qualified. When sales tactics are implemented publicly, like on a blog, I don't see any way around pissing some people off. If you pitch something on a publicly accessible page, you're gonna get complaints, period. Just remember...the complainers aren't in your target zone anyway :-)

"You can call it what you want if it is easier for your mommy to still love you, but it is still marketing and selling."

*LOL* still chuckling from that one.

F*&^ing A Grant, I don't know which pisses me off more - people who bitch and moan about how we shouldn't focus any efforts on money, or those that want to rename "marketing" and "selling".

I'm all for building relationships. I'm even down with giving away stuff for free.

BUT - in the end, I'm a friggin' marketer who has a wife and family to feed, a life to enjoy and a dream for something better. I'm also a salesman who sees a need and tries to match it with a product. Do I lead with a product, no, not because I'm ashamed of it or think that it is some dirty "trick", but because I'm smart enough to know that people don't make their purchases based on product alone.

Oh hell, I'd better shut up before I get into a rant. Thanks for saying what a lot of us are out here feeling.

YOU ROCK! :)~

Classic - loved this Grant. Your rant is absolutely justified! I don't understand the stream of thought that says "sales and marketing" bad - how on earth do people think that companies make money! I suspect that people who do say such things are possibly feeling uncomfortable doing these critical activities and as such are looking for a way to deflect their own failings in the space! I am not comfortable doing sales - but boy do I know that without doing them, my own business is dead!Thanks for sharing.

On the other hand, check out the decade old approach of former Yahoo executive Seth Godin and his "permission marketing" approach.

I totally missed that message. But then again, I only have one list: people I pay attention to. There is no B list for me.

We may be attracted to shame. What we have to get over is being attracted to the so called "A-Listers" who want to try to make themselves feel better and tell us we should not be marketing. The same "A-Listers" who are marketing their stuff and trying to sell it to us.

Glad you liked that. It was the nicest way I could tell them to go F#&$ themselves too. And god forbid we actually are in the business of making money.

Buying and selling are natural human activities in modern society (they may not be in some primitive or future Utopian societies, but they are in our current society). Being ashamed of the transfer of capital is silly, just like it's silly to be ashamed of having (or not having) money. Everybody on the planet has a financial status, and we all use money to exchange goods, services, and "value".

But people are attracted to shame. We're ashamed of our bodies. We're ashamed of out desires. We're ashamed to talk about sex. Is it really any wonder that we're also ashamed to talk about (or worse, ask for) money?

I have never laughed so hard at someone saying, "Go suck an egg."

+1 internets to you, sir. :-)

You are right on the money with this one. And I mean that literally, because at the end of the day all this dirty marketing we're doing is designed to bring in lots of dirty, dirty money.

You know, that stuff that buys food for our families and puts a roof over our heads.

Kind of goes along with those who are too damn concerned with being on or with the "A-Listers." Kind of reminds me of those young men in High School who thought they were studs. My dad told me one day, don't worry about the "studs", one day you will find them dead under a snow tire.

Of course I am aging myself when I refer to studded snow tires.

Leon - Let me give that next crusade some thought.

Grant-

Amen. Second: those of my clients that sell with ferocity don't owe me money. Third: those that are determined to sell win.

Those that are determined to get famous might, but they usually have no sales and no money. No legacy.

Chris

G'Day Grant,
Goodonyer !----as we say Down Under. I am, to put it politely, no longer young. I've run a business for 32 years. Sales and marketing are two of the most disciplined endeavours I've ever been involved in.

Of course there are cowboys and crapshooters involved. You'll find your fair share of them in any profession. But if you want to let those sort of people determine you reputation.......

Now Grant, for your next crusade, try educating the denizen of the web about the difference between "marketing" and "sales." There's always a new challenge......

And, whatever you do, make sure you have fun.

Regards

Leon

We not only need to use them. We need to be proud to use them too. If someone who is in marketing is to ashamed to say they are in marketing, they need to go find something else to do.

Great post, grant. We don't go into business out of altruism (in fact, scientists tend to agree that altruism has no basis in human nature). All we're doing by using semantic disguises for what we do is being dishonest. Some words become pejorative unfairly, and that's something we just have to deal with for terms like "marketer" and "marketing". The first step to reclaiming these terms? Using them!

Love this, Grant, love it... and I hadn't heard the suck-an-egg thing in years, so thanks for the afternoon chuckle. ... oh, and I have absolutely nothing to add to this, just chucklin'...

Looks like I taught you well. LOL

Keith - You like that. That was the best way I could come up with and not say go F*$& yourself. LOL

Molly- Thanks for adding to the conversation and I agree. While you are right in "relanguaging and redeifining" that does not relieve those who are afraid of marketing. They need to get over it and get back to selling what they have to offer.

"Go Suck An Egg!" Love it Grant! I agree 100%, call it what it is! Marketing!

Amen, alleluia! It's misguided and arrogant to believe one's good will, intelligence, or level of enlightenment exempts one from the laws of the marketplace. If you want to work with or serve real people, you are going to have to do what it takes to get the word out and close the deal. That means marketing and selling.

That said, there is value in relanguaging and redefining conventional terms related to marketing and sales in more humane terms. "Target audience," for example is an important concept, and the military language can be a turn off to those with a creative or humanitarian orientation.

So do what you must with the language, but by all means, so your job if you intend to serve and prosper.

I am an advertising photographer. Most people would think I take pictures all day. Truth is I spend most of my days marketing and selling my photographic style to ad agencies and magazines all over the country. I'd be lying if I said that wasn't frustrating and draining but that's part of running a small business. As small business owners we would be doing ourselves a huge disservice by not thinking of ourselves as marketers and sellers.